Press J to jump to the feed. Thinner blades make Japanese knives easier to use because they require less pressure to slice through food. If you cut with a rocking technique, (and most folks do) keeping the tip on or close to the board then a German (or French) style of knife … When choosing a set (I assume this is that, from the plurality of your post) it's important to know that you may be more interested in some European styles for some knives, and some Asian styles for others. The VG10 steel used in Japanese knives is harder and holds a sharper edge than German knives, and the 16-degree angle allows these knives to be sharper than the Germans, too. Choosing between German and Japanese style knives should be based more on your cutting technique than any preference for "latest and greatest" trend. Their four piece set represents a great starter kit, and expect a razor sharp and pleasant experience using the knives within. Now I pull out my Chinatown cleaver for that kind of slamming work. When the edge is applying pressure against the cutting board it is not good to cant the blade from side to side, pivot it like a windshield wiper, or scrape side to side. Wusthof's are well priced this side of the pond, which is one advantage (although imo it's still pushing the £100 limit and you don't get a huge amount for it considering it's a German knife very similar to the Victorinox in usage). Their classic line is considered to be one of the professional gold standards along with the likes of Victorinox F.Dick and Granton. Sharpening stones and systems, strops, cutting boards, etc. It's a razor and a work of art. You also don't have to feel so bad if you suck at sharpening for a few months when you make a mess out of a good $40 chef's knife too. Did their reactions surprise you in any way? I don't routinely abuse my knives that much. Now if I’m looking into buying a Nakiri - do you have any recommendations? Tougher European steel can handle side load abuse better than good Japanese steel. Please follow proper reddiquette. Shen offer up some pan-Asian inspired knives that outright make certain jobs more than easy, and one of my personal favourites is the named Maoui Deba knife. Do you find yourself dealing with a lot of whole birds? For a utility knife, nothing beats Victorinox (Swiss made). I’m torn between going with the Zwilling pro knives vs some sort of Japanese brand. Whustoff's do not typically have as sharp an edge as a lot of the Japanese knives do. I appreciate your time and words. The steel is hardier and they do not require the level of care that many of the Japanese knives do. My girl has one and after sharpening, she's lucky if it still has an edge a week later. Global's popular chef's knife is a Japanese-style blade, which means it boasts a scary-sharp edge and a nimble-feeling lightweight body. - Another great alternative (And I actually have several in my pro kit that I take to work with me) is Wüsthof. Would not do that again. Most stores aren't going to offer try before you buy, so hopefully some of the links I gave you will encourage you to dive a little deeper on their sites, maybe you'll see something you like in your mind's eye and it'll resonate enough for you to try it. I keep my Shuns super sharp with sub micron stones for when I want a change of pace and want something super sharp, but I'm finding again and again that I enjoy my high value cheap stuff a lot more for routine cooking because I don't have to worry about dinging an edge. I have not found that to be the case at least for me. The catch of course is that Kai have very much moved away from traditional appearance, and some would call their style for their knives tacky. are all fair game as well. Then get some stones and learn how to properly sharpen these knives and spend what you would have spent on a huge set on other goodies. They are harder steels, by design, and meant for vertical cutting with either a push or pull (slicing) cut. Eventually, it becomes clear how deft such a large knife can be. Any input or opinion would be awesome. Kyocera (Kyoto Ceramics) invented the concept. Shun Cutlery knives are made in Japan, a culture that prides itself on handmade, beautiful knives show-pieces. This 8-inch Shun knife is light enough for … If you cut with a rocking technique, (and most folks do) keeping the tip on or close to the board then a German (or French) style of knife will be more suited for you. Go to YouTube and look for "Japanology knives" for a fantastic 20 minute lesson on the utility and variety of knives. Japanese knives, like Shun, and German knives, like Wusthof, have several fundamental differences. And I'll add that I don't have much experience with entry level nakiri. Check out Zknives.com for a lot of Japanese knife reviews. As mentioned with Yoshihiro though there's an adversity to having a truly balanced set of knives, and one may benefit from buying items individually. A place to talk about the use, maintenance, and acquisition of any bladed kitchen instrument as well as whetstones, cutting boards, and more! This is the same as some of the real hard blends that Japanese knives … I've a Wat that is considered top of the game but it would run just north of $300usd. Not looking for brand suggestions, just general equipment advice.). Press J to jump to the feed. The knife is well weighted and comes sharpened at a lower angle to provide a more precise, sharp edge. It's not often that you can get perspective from someone who can directly compare so many makes. Press J to jump to the feed. They're are too many other factors to consider for Japanese knives before a relevant recommendation can be made. The steel is absolute garbage, but depending on your age and upbringing you may be like me and have the same steel that your Granny used in the 1950's. Kai are a very old blade maker out of Seki city, and it shows with some of their work. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Very high end stuff is very expensive compared to well priced stuff that does a good job without fanfare. Durable, stay sharp, not too fragile, and definitely feels good in the hand, this knife and its brethren are a delight to use for most jobs. Cutting heavier or tougher things, however, might be more of a challenge, and can even damage more specialized knives. The chefs knife is of course what you would consider typically German, and everything else within is functionally above average for the price tag. Japanese knives tend to be thinner and sharper, more useful for fine cuts on delicate fish. By far my favorite kitchen knife. Most Western-style knives sport more defined handle ergonomics as well (more details here). I have a couple more blocks of knives not shown in the pics. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts What’s everyone’s opinion and what Japanese brand would you suggest? I learned that it matters what you need to make Japanese knifes are good for like sushi or very fast and light and sharp but not great for like big meats and they need to not be put under alot of pressure. Potatoes and onions won't build up on the side. There's a whole lot of loaning between both continental styles of their knives also , and very often when you buy a set of German, French, or Swiss knives the brand may very well be from that country, but the styles of all of the knives in a set may vary (Except for the work horse chefs knife). Seems like a whole tome of information, right? To a tee their knives are durable, easy to sharpen and keep sharp (Like... sharp enough that people swoon when I show them my sashimi knives). The form of the Chinese-style knife takes some getting used to compared to Western and some Japanese knives—your hand is higher, the balance is different, and the blade has a minimal (and in some cases no) curve—but with practice, you can adjust to it. While Damascus steel is often made with importance placed on aesthetics, strong, functional and durable knives can result from the proper choice of steel and careful forging. I love my Japanese steel knives. The blades of Japanese knives are lighter, thinner, and harder. A place for all things chef knives. r/knives: Sharp and pointy stuff! I wouldn't recommend Henckel's as they have many different levels of quality, only one product line of which can really be considered professional quality and in my opinion still are not as well balanced or as durable as the Whustoff's. BEGIN Japanology Kitchen Knives: http://youtu.be/ytHnQsxIszc. Japanese knives do not handle bad technique well. If this knife is to be your main knife (or first good one) then I suggest dropping that coin on the more versatile chef knife or gyuto. Do you think the ad was racist? A natural selection. The harder blade lets them be thinner, sharpened to a lower angle, and will provide better edge retention than their Euro counterparts. This is an ideal choice for anyone looking for a high-end, well-performing knife. I'm looking at purchasing a new knife and have come to the fork in the road, Japanese or German. I don't recommend buying a huge set. Shun DM0706 – Best Japanese Chef Knife with 8-inch Blade. However because of the thinner angle, that means they have less steel at the edge and are therefore more brittle. Shen. Shuns are usually made with VG-10 which is an okay steel, not a great steel. This is not to say high-end German (and American and Swiss) knives don't do a lot of things well and don't represent a lot of value -- because they most certainly do. Chef knives with 8-inch blades come with a multitude of user benefits. Japanese knives come in many shapes and blade types. By the sounds of it even though carbon has a bit more upkeep they sound like the better option? German are just the opposite heavier but can cut meats and such easier but would not be good for sushi and such. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/smurfe/Food/IMG_2015.jpg, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/smurfe/Food/IMG_1907.jpg, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/smurfe/Food/IMG_1864.jpg, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/smurfe/Food/IMG_2161.jpg, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/smurfe/Food/IMG_2049.jpg, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the AskCulinary community. Japanese knives are traditionally made of high carbon steel forge welded to soft iron and that tradition continues today, usually with Hitachi White Steel #1-2, Blue Steel #1-2, and Blue Super Steel. And this is why I love reddit. This is a choice in utility. If you get one of the thicker ones with a deeper edge bevel, you'll find that some foods will release from them after slicing which is really nice. Common grades used in the production of Damascus steel include … Of all these knives I use that one with the vegetables shown 98% of the time. 87.8k Failing that, if you have a chef or a home cook in your circle of friends or in your family I'd prod the older people for their take. Japanese knives are generally lighter and sharper than their German counterparts. If your kitchen has a more earthy feel to it, then these might just fit in quite nicely.. Made from superior quality Honshu steel, this elegantly simple knife set can be a pleasure to use with sushi preparation. A place to talk about the use, maintenance, and acquisition of any bladed kitchen instrument as well as whetstones, cutting boards, and more! - For balance sake here's a final entry that is one of those Japanese heavyweights that have really diversified beyond tradition, Kai Shun. They are very high quality steel, they are very durable and beloved by many professional chefs around the world. In this episode of 'Price Points', Epicurious challenges knife expert Geoff Feder to guess which knife is more expensive. For me it's Japanese all the way. Personall I use German (Wusthoff as suggested earlier) because I know I'm not making fine, delicate, fancy restaurant-level cuts on fish. I do have my own sharpening stone. But when it comes to what many of us consider to be the most important aspects of cooking knives they lag behind the Japanese. Professional chef of 20 years and home cook of a little bit over here so take what I say with a grain of salt with some things if you feel they don't fit your budget and scope of use. Posts and comments should be limited to the care, use, or purchase of chef knives, kitchen knives, or any hand held bladed kitchen instrument. Every single knife they have is of course useful, but their bread knives are not as good as their pastry knives (Which are never included in medium sized sets). If you’re not convinced German-style knives like Wusthof and Zwilling are right for you, check out our recent articles, Shun vs. Wusthof, Cutco vs. Wusthof, Wusthof vs. A nakiri is fun to use but it's utility is pretty much limited to vegetables. It is better to scrape food with the back of the knife than with the cutting edge if you want to use the side of the knife to sweep food. Western knives are designed for cutting and chopping - downward or circular motion or sawing. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, my knife is sharper than your honor student. Unless you are a professional chef, go for a set of Whustoff's. This means though that the edge is hardier and can take more abuse without needing to be re-sharpened. If you prefer to push cut (a technique most pro's develop for efficiency), or want to learn to push cut, the the flatter Japanese knives will better suit you. - Whilst not German I would be remiss if I did not mention a Victorinox set. A Western-style knife (sometimes called a German-style knife) is typically going to be heavier and have a thicker blade than a Japanese-style knife. German knives will be thicker and therefore can take a lot more. In closing it really is a "you do you" affair. Chances are you have either grandparents or an aunt or uncle somewhere that will have some ultimate chef knife (maybe even from a totally obscure and out there brand) that will fit for you. Moreover, they’re … I.O. I.O. I don't get the German steel staying sharp longer. I would rather have a decent chef's, paring, boning, and fillet knife and a couple stones than one very expensive Japanese knife and no stones for that matter. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Kramer, Vnox and a host of Germans have this type of profile - Messermeister Meridian is my personal favorite among them. It is bad to "tweak" the edge of a high end Japanese knife. For starters, they’re arguably the best Japanese chef knives for beginners that aren’t ready for 9.5”-10” models. Mass production from traditional knife makers usually compromises product but there are videos lurking on YouTube of people comparing some of their museum pieces to more modern ones and vocally noting how good they still are. Most knife manufacturers make Japanese style knives, however, so you can find Wusthof and Henckels-made Santokus and Japanese-style chef’s knives. Going deeper on that my home knives are just as eclectic as my professionals, and I think outside of my little Victorinox knives (a must) I don't have any three that are the same brand or style. For the sake of simplicity I'll focus on the chef knife within a set as your nationality style, rather than go too deep on things like a turning knife or pairing knife. (I checked the sidebar, hope this isn't a misplaced post. The sharpest edges do not stay the sharpest forever and once you get used to extreme sharpness you'll miss it when it slowly wears away. That said the Mizu Yaki Blue Steel Kurouchi Gyuto gives you an idea of a mid-range home cooking gold standard. I.E. I would much rather have a full complement of stones and an economically priced Forschner than a comparatively expensive Japanese knife and no stones. Forgot to add to other post. If you want to consider this route suggest you do the Cwees thing. They are readily maintained between sharpenings with a "steel" (rod), that will align the edge. The few western knives I own are a nice set of Wustoffs. German Vs Japanese Knives: The Big Difference To summarize: German knives are heavier and more forgiving, while Japanese knives are lighter, sharper, and require more careful handling. Buying a nakiri as a first knife is simply trend chasing. Denise Landis article on her testing of light and flexible kitchen knives made in Japan by Yoshikin that are beginning to win over American chefs from stury German knives … Wüsthof have this fantastic Classic 6pc that ticks every box, maybe even more so than Zwilling because their steel is well above the average for the price tag. Very often people are confused by the words sharpen and hone. First up we have a three-piece knife set which comes in a lightly colored and nature-inspired ash wood box. Sooo; - On the German side of things I've found that Zwilling's Professional S 6pc is ideal for most home cooks who take their passion more seriously. What works for … The very hard acute angles of a Japanese knife are not well suited to scraping bones. They will not suffer mis-use very well and will chip instead of roll. This is very much the same with more modern sets from Japanese, Thai, Malay, and Filipino companies also. Generally speaking I would suggest that you look at what tasks you often end up doing before getting your knives. That Vic gets nearly as sharp as the Shuns and holds an edge quite well. I started off with a santoku 8" and 10" and a boning knife. Unless you're a professional, it is highly unlikely. Victorinox' Classic Kitchen 5PC is definitely better for budget, but you may benefit from buying products individually. You can also order from their catalogue as their website doesn't show off the full range of their knives and sets, and I would strongly recommend their classic rosewood line (which to the annoyance of many a chef doesn't include a wood handled tomato knife, oft considered the most useful "little" knife in ones set). Shun give Japanese styles knives a bad name. German knives have thicker blades that are heavier and more durable. The slice happens on the pull stroke. Therefore I recommend the Whustoff's. Well a big part of my learning always came from seeing what the more experienced chefs would have in their hands. The design of the blades are crucial for their intended purpose. They rarely need sharpening (note I said sharpening here, not honing) and will stand up better to the blunders and abuse that are more common with less experienced chefs or the average home cook. The chef/gyuto is considerably more versatile, has a tip for dicing, can be used for proteins, etc, etc, etc. It holds an edge very well for a knife at this price, and makes a great first step into the world of Japanese knives. Japanese VG10 Steel with High Carbon Stainless Steel. — but the ones we're talking about when we compare German knives to Japanese knives are western-style knives that are made in Japan Thank you so much for your fountain of information. People keep saying that. Most chef’s knives you’ll find come in two styles: German, and a double-edged Japanese take on German knives (which are called gyuto). The carbon steel is like any other, and must be kept dry to stop oxidation and rusting, but it's not as if you're going to leave them loafing at the bottom of the sink anyway, right? I have a hand made 10" Japanese chef knife that cost 20 times my F. Dick. Just not a fan. It is not worthwhile to have a very expensive knife capable of holding an extreme edge without having stones that get up to at least 4000 mesh to maintain your knife. /r/AskCulinary provides expert guidance for your specific cooking problems to help people of all skill levels become better cooks, to increase understanding of cooking, and to share valuable culinary knowledge. At the same time they aren't quite Japanese and they aren't quite German which gives them weird characteristics that don't amount to anything special. 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